Comments on: Cynic’s Guide: Not Taught At University http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/ "Philosophical rhetoric when not grounded in reality is nowt but sophistry of the most facile variety." - DeeDee Ramona Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:33:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: slurrey http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2418 slurrey Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:29:43 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2418 Had that earlyer on, just refresh the page.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2418">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2418','slurrey'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Had that earlyer on, just refresh the page.

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]]> By: Lou http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2417 Lou Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:02:07 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2417 *passes Mental a biscuit* P.S. I can't comment on the live chat ????<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2417">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2417','Lou'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> *passes Mental a biscuit*

P.S. I can’t comment on the live chat ????

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]]> By: Lou http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2416 Lou Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:44:02 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2416 *passes Beakie a nice cup of tea*<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2416">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2416','Lou'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> *passes Beakie a nice cup of tea*

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]]> By: slurrey http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2415 slurrey Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:39:50 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2415 *Passes Beakie a bourbon* Shhh Dont tell Dr Crippen<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2415">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2415','slurrey'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> *Passes Beakie a bourbon* Shhh Dont tell Dr Crippen

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]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2414 beakie Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:15:16 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2414 Can I have a bourbon?<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2414">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2414','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Can I have a bourbon?

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]]> By: slurrey http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2410 slurrey Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:14:54 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2410 *smiles at Lou*<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2410">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2410','slurrey'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> *smiles at Lou*

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]]> By: Lou http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2409 Lou Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:00:03 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2409 *passes Slurry a piece of shortbread*<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2409">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2409','Lou'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> *passes Slurry a piece of shortbread*

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]]> By: slurrey http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2408 slurrey Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:34:26 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2408 Phew is it over?<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2408">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2408','slurrey'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Phew is it over?

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]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2367 beakie Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:58:39 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2367 My intention wasn't to scare you, IB, but to indicate that perhaps your debating style is a little oppressive and bullying. Go on - have the last word, I know you can't resist it.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2367">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2367','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> My intention wasn’t to scare you, IB, but to indicate that perhaps your debating style is a little oppressive and bullying. Go on - have the last word, I know you can’t resist it.

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]]> By: The Irreverent Buddhist http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2366 The Irreverent Buddhist Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:19:53 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2366 Withold your love :O ---- ooh I am scared --- Next time just don't try and hold up a piece of patent nonsense as "fact" for so long then discussing anything with me will be less problematic for you.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2366">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2366','The Irreverent Buddhist'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Withold your love :O —- ooh I am scared —

Next time just don’t try and hold up a piece of patent nonsense as “fact” for so long then discussing anything with me will be less problematic for you.

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]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2365 beakie Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:11:26 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2365 I hope that makes you very content, IB, but I'm now extremely reluctant to discuss anything with you in future.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2365">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2365','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I hope that makes you very content, IB, but I’m now extremely reluctant to discuss anything with you in future.

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]]> By: The Irreverent Buddhist http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2361 The Irreverent Buddhist Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:30:03 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2361 You already gave up. I "won" before we started. You were being silly.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2361">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2361','The Irreverent Buddhist'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> You already gave up. I “won” before we started. You were being silly.

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]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2360 beakie Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:18:34 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2360 I give up. You win. Happy now? I'll take my savaged olive branch and go home.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2360">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2360','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I give up. You win. Happy now?

I’ll take my savaged olive branch and go home.

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]]> By: The Irreverent Buddhist http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2359 The Irreverent Buddhist Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:04:47 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2359 Beakie it was not a snide insinuation but a genuine concern stated blatantly. I stated quite plainly that if you really believed what you were saying I was worried about the quality of education new nurses are getting. And I meant it. Having said that, my concern is lessened somewhat by your last post in which you clearly recognises the truth is not as you have previously claimed: on the ground the Psychiatrist has powers given to him, and circumscribed, by politicians in parliament. At the same time as changing your argument you suggest we drop the subject. I'm quite happy to drop it now you have dropped the impossible to defend line you were formerly trying to take. In fact there is no argument any more. Except to say you were not taking a "meta" point of view, you were taking an abstract reductionist point of view that meant your arguments were absurd. I was taking a meta point of view and your attempt to confine it with your abstract reduction was always destined to fail.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2359">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2359','The Irreverent Buddhist'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Beakie it was not a snide insinuation but a genuine concern stated blatantly.

I stated quite plainly that if you really believed what you were saying I was worried about the quality of education new nurses are getting. And I meant it.

Having said that, my concern is lessened somewhat by your last post in which you clearly recognises the truth is not as you have previously claimed: on the ground the Psychiatrist has powers given to him, and circumscribed, by politicians in parliament.

At the same time as changing your argument you suggest we drop the subject. I’m quite happy to drop it now you have dropped the impossible to defend line you were formerly trying to take. In fact there is no argument any more.

Except to say you were not taking a “meta” point of view, you were taking an abstract reductionist point of view that meant your arguments were absurd. I was taking a meta point of view and your attempt to confine it with your abstract reduction was always destined to fail.

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]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2358 beakie Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:22:59 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2007/07/16/cynics-guide-not-taught-at-university/#comment-2358 IB - this discussion has moved away from your initial claim: that psychiatrists have power without accountability. They clearly don't, and you seem to have shifted somewhat towards this view. What is happening now between us is a circular discussion about the nature of power wherein I point out where the real power lies and you talk about the exercise of legally-granted and strictly circumscribed "powers". I suggest we drop this, as it's going nowhere. I seem to be taking a more "meta" view of power, whereas you are focussing on the particular, the "micro" view. In terms of the relationship between a psychiatrist and his patient, then it is true to say there is an imbalance in the amount of control or influence one person has (the patient can't detain the psychiatrist, for instance). However, the patient is not a totally powerless pawn in the psychiatrist's hands, and nor is the psychiatrist free from being under the control of any other more powerful influences. For instance, the fear of public inquiries means that defensive practice is often the dish of the day. I would appreciate it if you didn't make snide insinuations about my ability to do my job based on my contributions here. It's unhelpful, offensive and unlikely to lead to constructive dialogue.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-2358">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2358','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> IB - this discussion has moved away from your initial claim: that psychiatrists have power without accountability. They clearly don’t, and you seem to have shifted somewhat towards this view.

What is happening now between us is a circular discussion about the nature of power wherein I point out where the real power lies and you talk about the exercise of legally-granted and strictly circumscribed “powers”. I suggest we drop this, as it’s going nowhere. I seem to be taking a more “meta” view of power, whereas you are focussing on the particular, the “micro” view.

In terms of the relationship between a psychiatrist and his patient, then it is true to say there is an imbalance in the amount of control or influence one person has (the patient can’t detain the psychiatrist, for instance). However, the patient is not a totally powerless pawn in the psychiatrist’s hands, and nor is the psychiatrist free from being under the control of any other more powerful influences.

For instance, the fear of public inquiries means that defensive practice is often the dish of the day.

I would appreciate it if you didn’t make snide insinuations about my ability to do my job based on my contributions here. It’s unhelpful, offensive and unlikely to lead to constructive dialogue.

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