Comments on: Homebirths and the merry Midwives of Kent http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/ "Philosophical rhetoric when not grounded in reality is nowt but sophistry of the most facile variety." - DeeDee Ramona Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:50:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Mr Ian http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8548 Mr Ian Mon, 12 May 2008 14:18:48 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8548 I remember as a student nurse doing my first general placement and working a smnall cottage hoispital where they did day surgery on Wednesday mornings. I prep'd a youngish man of not even 30 for his vasectomy. I went thru the procedure with him and discussed with him after care pain relief. He told me - It's ok, I'm into natural remedies and I've got some Arnaca. Within two hours post op he was crying for codeine. slightly off topic but not sure when Z was going to post about vasectomies so gave up waiting. Incidentally, I was born at home. Mum said never again. I think it was cos she found it hard to latch me whilst trying to also mop the kitchen floor later that same morning.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8548">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8548','Mr Ian'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I remember as a student nurse doing my first general placement and working a smnall cottage hoispital where they did day surgery on Wednesday mornings.
I prep’d a youngish man of not even 30 for his vasectomy. I went thru the procedure with him and discussed with him after care pain relief. He told me - It’s ok, I’m into natural remedies and I’ve got some Arnaca.

Within two hours post op he was crying for codeine.

slightly off topic but not sure when Z was going to post about vasectomies so gave up waiting.

Incidentally, I was born at home. Mum said never again. I think it was cos she found it hard to latch me whilst trying to also mop the kitchen floor later that same morning.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: seratonin sister http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8516 seratonin sister Sat, 10 May 2008 20:46:07 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8516 I really don't know enough about these madwives to comment.All I will say is being in labour is not a laugh a minute.I can only liken it to feeling as if you are going to be split in half & so any woman who does without pain relief must be superhuman.Having both my children in hospital both turned out to be different experiences.The first time with the aid of vacuum extraction in theatre, which caused a lot of horrible complications & a blood transfusion.The second time the beeping epidural didn't work !!! Loved gas & air made me sound like Darth Vader ! So glad neither was a home birth.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8516">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8516','seratonin sister'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I really don’t know enough about these madwives to comment.All I will say is being in labour is not a laugh a minute.I can only liken it to feeling as if you are going to be split in half & so any woman who does without pain relief must be superhuman.Having both my children in hospital both turned out to be different experiences.The first time with the aid of vacuum extraction in theatre, which caused a lot of horrible complications & a blood transfusion.The second time the beeping epidural didn’t work !!! Loved gas & air made me sound like Darth Vader !
So glad neither was a home birth.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: beakie http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8512 beakie Sat, 10 May 2008 09:59:40 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8512 <i>I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.</i> And this is what makes them madwives. The reason deaths in childbirth have gone down is because of modern obstetric care. Someone said (can't remember who) that there had developed a strange brand of female machismo about pregnancy and birth, with those who hold out against the epidurals and the gas and air being seen as somehow morally superior to those who avail themselves of all that modern medicine has to offer. It's all bullshit - yes, pregnancy isn't an illness BUT childbirth can be bloody dangerous. If I were a woman, having read the hair-raising account of negligence and incompetence documented on Crippen's website, I'd be giving independent midwives a very wide berth - just like the insurance companies do, in fact. And please God, the govt doesn't pick up that bill!<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8512">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8512','beakie'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.

And this is what makes them madwives. The reason deaths in childbirth have gone down is because of modern obstetric care.

Someone said (can’t remember who) that there had developed a strange brand of female machismo about pregnancy and birth, with those who hold out against the epidurals and the gas and air being seen as somehow morally superior to those who avail themselves of all that modern medicine has to offer. It’s all bullshit - yes, pregnancy isn’t an illness BUT childbirth can be bloody dangerous.

If I were a woman, having read the hair-raising account of negligence and incompetence documented on Crippen’s website, I’d be giving independent midwives a very wide berth - just like the insurance companies do, in fact. And please God, the govt doesn’t pick up that bill!

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: zarathustra http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8511 zarathustra Sat, 10 May 2008 07:37:33 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8511 <i>I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.</i> They have a paramilitary wing????? Midwives with guns. Scary.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8511">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8511','zarathustra'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.

They have a paramilitary wing?????

Midwives with guns. Scary.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: zarathustra http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8509 zarathustra Sat, 10 May 2008 07:33:20 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8509 At this point, myself and The Shrink would like to apologise to those members of the readership who have just thrown up a little in their own mouths.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8509">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8509','zarathustra'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> At this point, myself and The Shrink would like to apologise to those members of the readership who have just thrown up a little in their own mouths.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: E http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8508 E Sat, 10 May 2008 07:32:30 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8508 I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8508">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8508','E'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I think the paramilitary wing of the home birthing brigade (aka Kent midwives) might see the issue in ideological / ethical terms.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: TheShrink http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8507 TheShrink Fri, 09 May 2008 23:32:10 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8507 No no, Zarathustra, that's not the reason at all. It's just . . . you're not there when I want you and you don't satisfy my needs any more. I mean, for example, it's now Saturday and where's the round up, eh? See? You're just not giving me what I desire now 8)<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8507">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8507','TheShrink'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> No no, Zarathustra, that’s not the reason at all.

It’s just . . . you’re not there when I want you and you don’t satisfy my needs any more.

I mean, for example, it’s now Saturday and where’s the round up, eh?

See?

You’re just not giving me what I desire now 8)

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: zarathustra http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8502 zarathustra Fri, 09 May 2008 19:45:34 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8502 <i>What Zarathustra said. Oh good grief, people will start thinking we’re an item.</i> Shrink, is this why you won't hold hands with me in public any more?<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8502">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8502','zarathustra'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> What Zarathustra said.

Oh good grief, people will start thinking we’re an item.

Shrink, is this why you won’t hold hands with me in public any more?

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: TheShrink http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8500 TheShrink Fri, 09 May 2008 18:16:29 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8500 What Zarathustra said. Oh good grief, people will start thinking we're an item. Except the bit about cats, I've no cats and do have kids. My wife wanted water births and funny stuff. We went for a birthing centre that is adjacent to (i.e. 3 metres from) an obstetric unit where I'd worked. I'd never ever ever entertain an independent midwife. We had NHS midwives who I knew. By happy chance (rather than design) ambulances are stationed minutes away from the unit. She got the benefits of water (better analgesia, betetr positioning) but none of the risks of either a home birth or isolation from a operating theatre. That kind of compromise can't be made in termination of pregnancy. As such, midwifery practice and abortion are, to my mind, two separate debates both in content and ideology. You're quite correct, of course, that folk polarise to extremes in both debates.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8500">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8500','TheShrink'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> What Zarathustra said.

Oh good grief, people will start thinking we’re an item.

Except the bit about cats, I’ve no cats and do have kids.

My wife wanted water births and funny stuff. We went for a birthing centre that is adjacent to (i.e. 3 metres from) an obstetric unit where I’d worked. I’d never ever ever entertain an independent midwife. We had NHS midwives who I knew. By happy chance (rather than design) ambulances are stationed minutes away from the unit. She got the benefits of water (better analgesia, betetr positioning) but none of the risks of either a home birth or isolation from a operating theatre.

That kind of compromise can’t be made in termination of pregnancy. As such, midwifery practice and abortion are, to my mind, two separate debates both in content and ideology.

You’re quite correct, of course, that folk polarise to extremes in both debates.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]> By: zarathustra http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/05/09/homebirths-and-the-merry-midwives-of-kent/#comment-8498 zarathustra Fri, 09 May 2008 16:36:40 +0000 http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/?p=679#comment-8498 Are they similar debates? I'm not sure. After all, the abortion debate is an issue of ethics (should the baby be born or aborted?), whereas as the disagreement on independent midwives is more one about patient safety and levels of expertise (we all agree that the baby should be born, but do independent midwives have the level of training/facilities to do the job safely?) Personally I have no particular stance on the independent midwives issue. I have cats so I don't have to have children.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-8498">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8498','zarathustra'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Are they similar debates? I’m not sure.

After all, the abortion debate is an issue of ethics (should the baby be born or aborted?), whereas as the disagreement on independent midwives is more one about patient safety and levels of expertise (we all agree that the baby should be born, but do independent midwives have the level of training/facilities to do the job safely?)

Personally I have no particular stance on the independent midwives issue. I have cats so I don’t have to have children.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Reply
]]>