I’ve been following the John Spencer/Virgin Healthcare saga as raised by Doc C.
However, during my surfing I also stumbled across this Personnel Today HR website and was [expletives deleted] to read this insightful article. I make no apologies for posting in full – it has to be read to be believed. Incidentally, the site welcomes comments so feel free.
Mental health: Off message – No trace of nuts
22 May 2008 10:03
Warning: any member of the kneejerk brigade should have their hammers at the ready, and should begin tapping their patellas furiously in preparation for getting really, leg-twitchingly annoyed, for we are about to enter into dangerous territory. Into the mouth of madness, as it were.
How many workplaces across the UK display the cheery sign ‘You don’t have to be mad to work here but it helps’?
Yet when it comes to talking about mental ill health, people find the subject too difficult to tackle – either preferring to ignore the subject for as long as possible, or taking the moral high ground and pontificating furiously about the need to confront the issue in a caring and sharing kind of way.
Taboo
Mental ill health is undoubtedly something that most people will have some experience of at one time or another – either personally, or as a witness – and is, therefore, one of the few things that most people would be qualified to discuss.
But, by and large, we choose not to. And employers seem more reticent than the average person, with only 5% of them acknowledging that members of the workforce have any such problems.
However, the Shaw Trust rightly argues that employers need to wake up to the fact that many people in their workforce will have some form of mental breakdown at some time. And the recent House of Lords ruling that an employer has to pay compensation for failing to spot an employee’s suicidal tendencies suggests that employers should take the matter seriously.
But the TUC’s recent call for employers to encourage job applications from people with mental health difficulties and to urge individuals to disclose any mental health problems they may have (PersonnelToday.com, 16 May) shows that it has only the most tenuous grip on reality.
No clues
It suggests that organisations should abandon their fears about employing people with known mental health conditions, yet apart from some generalised information about how to spot symptoms of mental distress, gives few clues to help managers actually deal with the problem.
According to the TUC work-related stress accounts for over a third of all new incidences of ill health, and each case of stress-related ill health leads to an average of 30.9 working days lost. It says this equates to 12.8 million working days being lost to stress, depression and anxiety every year. Stress, it must be stressed – unlike ‘pressure’, which can be a positive motivating force – leads to mental ill health.
Costly failure
According to Tim Cooper, managing director of the Shaw Trust the failure to manage mental health in the workplace costs the UK economy as much as £9bn in salaries alone, not including the impact on productivity (Personnel Today ITALS, 22 April).
And figures form the Office for National Statistics show that at least one in four employees experiences stress, anxiety, and other forms of mental ill health (Personneltoday.com, 1 February).
Ok.. so far it’s not so bad….. however… it continues….
The workplace is full of delusional individuals getting by and going up the ladder despite their obvious shortcomings. And as people have a tendency to employ people who are like themselves, that already provides an open door to a fresh supply of people with depression, anxiety and the like.
Sit up and take notice
So just getting employers to be aware of the problem in their midst would be a good start. For instance, it is arguable that anyone who chooses to work more than 40 hours a week clearly has a disorder of the frontal cortex.
The Health and Safety Executive helpfully provides a list of mental health symptoms for managers to spot impending trouble.
The most common signs of of anxiety are palpitations, headache, back ache, breathing difficulties, feeling on edge, worrying excessively and panic attacks. And when it comes to out-and-out depression, symptoms include inability to concentrate, impaired sleep, bouts of crying, poor appetite and general fatigue.
Typically stereotypical uneducated stupidity… yet, there’s more…. emphasis added…
A role for OH
Clearly, investing in an occupational health service would be a good starting point. And if so many of us are suffering with mental health problems, surely it would be a dereliction of duty for any organisation anywhere to knowingly court even more mentally distressed individuals who might pose a danger to existing members of staff – not to mention members of the public or other people being served by the organisation? That way madness lies.
And better still…. emphasis still added
Any discriminating employer would aim to give jobs to the people best qualified to do them. Sadly, but correctly, that would rule out people who would struggle to cope due to some mental frailty.
And unfortunately, there really is no business case for employing someone with mental health difficulties. Unless, of course, you know differently.
If you’d care to let him know differently…
Tony Pettengell (About this Author)
“it is arguable that anyone who chooses to work more than 40 hours a week clearly has a disorder of the frontal cortex.”
Well that immediately includes the medical profession, the legal profession, and anyone who is self employed. In fact anyone who is motivated and enjoying their work.
“It would be a dereliction of duty for any organisation anywhere to knowingly court even more mentally distressed individuals who might pose a danger to existing members of staff – not to mention members of the public or other people being served by the organisation?”
This might come as a surprise to Tony Pettengell but the vast majority of people who experience mental illness are not a risk to anyone, and only a minority of those who are have a mental illness.
“Any discriminating employer would aim to give jobs to the people best qualified to do them. Sadly, but correctly, that would rule out people who would struggle to cope due to some mental frailty.
And unfortunately, there really is no business case for employing someone with mental health difficulties. Unless, of course, you know differently.”
Beethoven, composer
Winston Churchill, politician
Charles Dickens, author
Paul Gascoigne, footballer
Kay Jamieson, clinical psychologist
Spike Milligan, comedian
Isaac Newton, Scientist
Florence Nightingale, nurse
Vincent Van Gogh, artist
Mark Whitacre, business executive
Buzz Aldin, Astronaut and second man to walk on the moon
Francis Ford Coppola, film director
Need I say more?
Dear oh dear.
For starters, my employer happens to disagree with Mr Petengell. I am, so to speak, “out of the closet” (or should that be hospital linen cupboard?) about my mental illness at work (which is of the “severe and enduring” variety – the illness not the job).
I recently had a serious episode, including a hospital stay and several months off, and my employer has been wonderfully supportive. I’m back now, doing my job as well as, in fact, better than before.
In case you’re wondering, I have a professional, responsible job. in an industry not known for being touchy-feely. I’m a software project manager in the City for a big investment bank. I’m responsible for the delivery of multi-million pound projects (and before OSB says anything, believe me, we deliver – I am very good at my job).
Employing me is not an act of charity – I and many many other mentally ill or otherwise disabled people definitely make our payslips worth our employers’ while.
I hate seeing the employment of the mentally ill being portrayed as some sort of massive favour. We don’t see the employment of someone in a wheelchair as a do-gooder act, or indeed of women or minorities – and since for the vast majority of mentally ill, it’s a temporary problem that doesn’t adversely affect their work (the likes of me are an exception after all – most mental illness is in the mild/moderate camp and is not lifelong) – it’s not some amazingly wonderfully kind act either.
I attended a presentation by Jonathan Naess last week where he pointed this out along with lots of stats (yes I know some of you don’t like him. On this point he was right on the money though).
And when it comes to looking for a new job (I’m not, but let’s say) I and others like me have options, and have no need of a condescending offer of employment from the likes of Pettengell – instead I would simply tell him to go forth and multiply.
ps I am not usually this arrogant. It’s just that this bloke Pettengell annoyed me.
I agree with DeeDee – and probably won’t put it as eloquently but it isn’t a case of the employer doing someone a favour by employing them if they have a mental illness but more that they will miss out on a massive range of extremely talented staff if they take this line.. and if you look at the amount of people affected, it’s just going to reduce the pool of people you can hire from.
Funnily enough DeeDee, it was only recently that I watched a documentary on the computer system running Waitrose`s home delivery system. I am fully aware of how capable the private sector is with regard to commissioning and utilising new systems. That just makes me more incredulous as to how the NHS can make such a monstrous shambles of it ( speaking as someone with the computing skills of a wildebeest ). Perhaps you should send your CV to the DoH.
Bloody hell, something has just struck me. Posts are coming thick and fast at the moment which is good in a way but unfortunate too as good threads are ending prematurely. At the end of the thread to Mo`s last post I made the point that in squandering £12 billion on an IT system, that never was, the NHS has scuppered the equivalent of 6 brand new aircraft carriers. Which gives a little perspective for those of us who`ve ever seen an aircraft carier close up.
In the real world ( private sector ) there was a furore when the Terminal 5 computer system didn`t work adequately for a number of days.
How massive a contrast could there possibly be. Some of you seem bemused at my incessant ranting. I`m bemused as to why you`re not !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep up the good work DeeDee. Us non – productive, useless bastards in the public sector salute you.
OSB “how the NHS can make such a monstrous shambles of it”. I think you’ll find it’s the politicians who make the bollox choices, not necessarily the NHS.
Please feel free to disregard this comment: I’m one of those “service user development workers” who’s employed specifically BECAUSE I have personal experience of mental health problems, therefore engaging in a debate with me is potentially dangerous. That HR-type chappie has wound me up.
Jan, You`ve been on this site long enough to know my views on this government. I`m loathed to defend them in any way but a government minister ( who also has responsibility for his constituents and other matters to attend to ) canot be given the task of nipping down to PC World and procuring the NHS`s new computer system. He has to delegate.
Of course, he should be monitoring things and if a department he oversees squanders £12,000,000,000 he should resign. Not that government ministers have the decency to resign anymore.
This Pretzel fella should know better… even if just to protect his own politically correct arse…
“Any discriminating employer would aim to give jobs to the people best qualified to do them.
That comes straight from his OND in Business Studies it’s that bloody obvious.
Sadly, but correctly, that would rule out people who would struggle to cope due to some mental frailty.”
And this comes from aliens who have no idea that we have anti-discrimination laws for just this ignorant and presumptive stupidity.
Hi, I’m a long time lurker here and I’m not usually brave enough to comment, but this has finally prompted me to do so. As someone who has experienced employment discrimination in the past due to my mental health difficulties (and yes, I am a mental health nurse so am referring to a mental health trust), this particular brand of out of date, stigmatising crap really pisses me off. I’m all for people being employed on the basis that they are the most suitable, qualified, experienced etc for the job, but having a mental health problem does not mean that you can’t still be all of these things! I bet this same person wouldn’t feel so comfortable to say the same about someone who had a physical health problem. What can I say? This is just one of the many reasons why I have often felt the need to work extra hard to prove others wrong. Of course, being the coward that I am, colleagues I now work with are not aware of my difficulties because of my previous bad experience, and because I don’t want them to have preconceptions of me based on knowing about them. Unfortunately I just find life to be somewhat easier if others at work don’t know.
By the way, I also just wanted to say how much I enjoy visiting the site. It’s by far one of the best I’ve found. I also share the general feeling of exasperation re. Dr. C. – I just don’t think he understands what nursing is actually about.
Anyway, better go. You never know, I might comment again in another year and a half’s time!
Welcome Luthien
Of course you shouldn’t tell anyone about your mental health issues… because then you’d want to kill them all and become totally shit at your job.. all of a sudden….. apparently.
My employer never complained or asked me to slow down when I was hypomanic and able to work 18 hours a day preparing presentations and delivering workshops. Or when I was depressed and felt like a pathetic individual, obliged to complete every task to perfection to avoid any criticism. It was a win-win situation for them.
As for discrimination, I reckon your employment history and attendance record seriously affect your job application, regardless of the cause.
I’d hate to see any positive discrimination such as the government’s recent push for women and ethnic minorities in the workplace. I can envisage the conversation in HR when a vacancy arises… “Well we’ve already got 3 schizophrenics, 3 bipolars, 10 unipolars, 2 dementias and 4 OCD’s… ooh but we’re short of one phobia. Yeah, call in the woman who was scared of clowns… oh no, we can’t, she’s also got Munchausen’s and we’ve already got one of those.”
As for E’s list for employers well how about….
Charles Dickens as “Top Tips” writer in the Viz?
Beethoven and Van Gogh in a call centre?
Churchill as CEO for Lufthansa?
Isaac Newton as Marketing Manager for The Church of Scientology?
Florence Nughtingale as editor of Mental Nurse?
Sorry, I haven’t got the heart to make light of poor old Gazza.
OSB> “Perhaps you should send your CV to the DoH”
.
um, no thanks, don’t need the stress
I have plenty to say on the subject of the NHS’s IT debacle, however instead of spamming the comments here with a gargantuan spiel, I will go away and write it up and post it on my blog, and post a link to it here. Assuming that’s OK with Z, who may not want me drumming up traffic like that… honestly, it’s just that it’s going to be LONG. Very long. And the finer details o IT project management may not be of primary interest to a lot of readers of this site.
“Keep up the good work DeeDee. Us non – productive, useless bastards in the public sector salute you.”
Hmmm I’m still alive because of you folks in the public sector. I don’t think the same can be said for investment banking! Plus the nhs IT debacle involved a number of private firms. But more about that later…
Mo> Beethoven wouldn’t be much good in a call centre – he was deaf, and Van Gogh was missing an ear, which could make wearing one of those headsets problematic…
My employer never complained or asked me to slow down when I was hypomanic and able to work 18 hours a day preparing presentations and delivering workshops. Or when I was depressed and felt like a pathetic individual, obliged to complete every task to perfection to avoid any criticism. It was a win-win situation for them.
Haha – too true. That’s what I think about my line manager. He was quite happy to have me there when I was performing. Now I’m signed off and not in the office it’s a different story.
The thought of HR reps reading this article is what makes my skin crawl. They’re not the brightest bunch (generalisation I know, but that’s my experience) – what happens when they all start thinking like this?!