Move over Dr Phil…. here comes Dr Will.
Dr William Courtenay to be precise. And what has he brought us?
Postnatal Depression.
In men.
PPND (Paternal Postnatal Depression) is common condition among men after the birth of a child. Up to 1 in 4 new dads have PPND. Depression, anxiety or other problems with mood can occur anytime during the first year of your child’s life. If you think you might have PPND, please carefully read this page and complete the assessment below.
PPND is a very serious condition. But it’s also a very treatable condition. If left untreated, however, PPND can result in damaging, long-term consequences for yourself, your child, and your family as a whole.
Yes, men have this too. And they’re not just saying it’s a “reactive condition”. There is argument, in the Times no less, that it may be hormonally linked:
New dads aren’t mentally ill, but they do tend to fuss – often on typically male matters such as whether the car seat is strapped exactly right. Over-attentiveness can be one problem – and postnatal depression is another.
The Adelaide University researcher, Karina Bria, says about 10 per cent of fathers develop the disorder. “Many don’t acknowledge it,” says Bria, who has conducted a national study on depression in first-time fathers. One man who isn’t in denial, though, is Will Courtenay,
Ooh.. it’s him again.
Karina did some research in 2007 on depression in new dads. Can’t find it. Everything I found talked about the research she was starting – based on a figure of 10% of new father’s who displayed symptoms of depression in some Australian research somewhere.
So who are these guys with PPND? I found this recent example over at CNN:
If his baby had needed to be soothed three months ago, Sandler, 36, of Houston, Texas, might have handed the baby off to his wife and then found an excuse to leave the house.
“Honestly, it felt like when I was at home, the walls became very, very close in. I wouldn’t say claustrophobic, but very cabin feverish,” Sandler said.
It turned out that Sandler, a medical device salesman, had more than cabin fever. He recently got an official diagnosis: He has a male version of postpartum depression.
“This comes as quite a shock to men who are expecting this wonderful time of baby bliss with the new baby and a time of bonding,” said Will Courtenay
Hmm… him again. To be fair – I don’t think Will “designed” the disorder and there certainly is no doubt significant life change occurs when a baby arrives that may cause any number of reactions.
But he’s sure not missing a trick and letting you think it could all be – well – just normal.
How long before we discover “employment depression” or “got no money for a beer depression”? Perhaps alongside the caption comp we can run a designer disorder comp?
Tangentially, but hormonally relevant, I went with my lovely woman today to get some pain relief for her hormonal suffering. You know – that time of month – that causes acute pain sharply in my ear. She only selects Paracetamol – generic brand. It works for her. It works for me too.
But I was interested to note Nurofen has a “Period Pain” tablet – it’s there; right next to the “Migraine” ones. I read both packets – same price – which is no surprise – they were both 200mg Ibuprofen.
I’ve heard midwives talking about this before.
I guess the “is it cobblers” test would be whether or not the men in question were displaying the physical symptoms of depression – loss of energy, disrupted sleep, loss of interest in sex, inability to concentrate.
Oh, it just occurred to me that all those symptoms could be caused by spending large amounts of time with a screaming baby.
yeah well how could you tell if it was a biological origin (ie hormonal change) as opposed to just being a natural life reaction?
And if you could – would it matter?
Only if we could detect and then remedy the alleged hormonal stuff that we have no idea about.
But there’s gold in them thar ‘ills.
True, though I was told by the same midwife that there’s a fair amount of evidence that female PND is also mostly a reactive depressive rather than due to hormone change. I know very little about PND, and I’m too lethargic to go trawling around Google Scholar right now, so I’ve no idea if what she said was accurate or not.
That’s what I had heard too Z. I think I even read about it, but couldn’t tell you where. Peurpal psychosis is real, but PND is more about reactive depression. Apparently there is no such thing in some countries where the family are closer and highly supportive – where the new gran might move in for the first few months etc.
This sounds like a similar thing, although less understandable for the man than the woman(sorry, being honest!)
“Depression, anxiety or other problems with mood can occur anytime during the first year of your child’s life”
Is that so? I do not have a child in its first year of life, so why am I experiencing these symptoms?
Unless Mr Courtenay is referring of course to the child, rather than the father??
Z: Don’t worry about trawling for info – there is nothing of significance – the hormonal link is all a theory based on some correlation work with males who have ‘phantom pregnancies’ and increase prolactin when their partners are pregnant.
I can vouch for the correlations as when my ex was pregnant both times I gained weight – but after nine months mine stayed.
These designer disorders are just starting to really annoy me tho – because they are nothing but a marketing ploy – clinicians selling mens post natal depression treatment on the basis if you suffer and did nothing about it – you are failing your family, your newborn and yourself.
Isn’t that the same sort of media pressure that gets blamed for anorexia?
Hmm – a major life event like the appearance of a new baby which alters both your relationship with the world and your relationship with your partner leads to psychological sequelae for some men. I don’t see anything “designer disorder” here, just an acknowledgement that significant life events can affect mood, perception &c
Exactly. And that’s the paradox about designer disorders; they are nothing special.
It’s using the word “disorder” when really it’s a reaction to current life events, less of a mental health issue in my opinion.
How many times have clinicians come across people having had a bereavement claim to not be coping? You’re not meant to cope, it’s natural to feel like shit for a time! You can’t even put a time limit on it as it’s down to the individual too.
I’m most agreeable.
But I’d like to add to the issue – see, it’s lines like this in Dr Will’s site that infuriate me:
PPND is a very serious condition. But it’s also a very treatable condition. If left untreated, however, PPND can result in damaging, long-term consequences for yourself, your child, and your family as a whole.
http://www.postpartummen.com/ppnd.htm
That’s what makes them “designer” disorders – designed to generate treatment income. Just like Prozac and “neurotic depression”.
Pure snake oil.
So Dad-to-be – come get help from Dr Will or you are a failure to your family and you will damage them. It is scaremongering people into unlikely and unnecessary treatment.
Falsely claimed or exacerbated health-scares – like mentally ill people are violent; gay people spread AIDS – have validated treatments or even government policy. This is IMO unethical.
Seems to me that PPND is more than being just a little bit tired or a little bit fed up.
..and deserving of such scare mongering amidst people at vulnerable times in their lives?
Of course we all adapt differently to life’s situations. Being a new father is no less a stressful change than moving house or changing jobs or getting married -
So should we embrace this preventative health care intervention strategy and start selling the treatment for post-mortgage depression; post-new-post depression and post-nuptial depression?
I don’t think educating men into the possibility that those things they’re experiencing after the birth of their kid might be a treatable illness is “scare mongering”. On the contrary, I think it would allay more anxiety than it caused, especially in today’s society where expectations of parents are so high.
and it requires a medical label?
Depression is a mood disorder, and this is a variant of that mood disorder so I’d say yes.
I’d also point out that men’s mental health problems are often missed or misdiagnosed, and that men are more likely to kill themselves than women, especially men in the peak years for paternity. Therefore it might not be a bad idea all round if men started taking those feelings they have after the kid appears seriously and pitching up to the docs to check if they have PPND.
Also, among other things, if you do have PPND and need – say – a couple of weeks off work, your employer won’t be too interested in a letter from the Mental Nurse website saying it’s probably just real life kicking in and you just need a nice rest and a cup of tea.
I think once I read how you liked kittens. Do you tie bits of wool on string and tease them until they bite? Or is it just me?
Anyhow… you’ve gently taunted three times and you’re obviously getting impatient with the last one so…. for the thrill of the chase and to put you out of your morbid misery .. here we go again…
It’s not the existence of men getting depressed, sad, unhappy, morose or even suicidal after a child is born that I take exception to. It’s life and it happens.
It is the marketing of treatment interventions as the singular panacea to all life’s ills.
What happened to going for a beer with your mates, or getting a babysitter and having a social life, or extended family helping out?
Did you sleep through the whole Prozac episode?
We need a psychiatric name for every life event and a therapist to provide the cure. And if you don’t get that treatment….
If left untreated, however, PPND can result in damaging, long-term consequences for yourself, your child, and your family as a whole.
That’s my perspective. I accept you have one and it’s good that you do.
But the game is getting stale.
The whole world does not revolve around you Mr Ian. I am not teasing you, I am expressing my opinion.
You may be interested in this
http://www3.interscience.wiley.....p;SRETRY=0
Goodman, J.H. (2004) Paternal postpartum depression, its relationship to maternal postpartum depression, and implications for family health Journal of Advanced Nursing 45(1), pp26–35
INTEGRATIVE LITERATURE REVIEWS AND META-ANALYSES
Paternal postpartum depression, its relationship to maternal postpartum depression, and implications for family health
Janice H. Goodman PhD(c) RN CS
Doctoral Candidate, Boston College Connell School of Nursing, Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, USA
KEYWORDS
paternal postpartum depression • prevalence • family health • couples • fathers • maternal postpartum depression • nursing • midwifery • review
ABSTRACT
Background. Much attention has been paid to the problem of postpartum depression in women. However, there is some indication that men also experience depression after the birth of a child, and that paternal depression is linked to maternal depression.
Aims. The purpose of this integrative review was to examine current knowledge about postpartum depression in fathers. Specific aims were (1) to examine the incidence of paternal depression in the first year after the birth of a child, (2) to identify the characteristics and predictors of paternal postpartum depression, (3) to describe the relationship between maternal and paternal postpartum depression, and (4) to discuss the influence of paternal depression on the family and infant.
Methods. A literature search from 1980 to 2002 was carried out using the CINAHL, PsychInfo, and Medline electronic databases. Twenty research studies were identified that included incidence rates of paternal depression during the first year postpartum. These were further examined and synthesized regarding onset, severity, duration, and predictors of paternal depressive symptoms, and for information about the relationship between maternal and paternal depression.
Findings. During the first postpartum year, the incidence of paternal depression ranged from 1·2% to 25·5% in community samples, and from 24% to 50% among men whose partners were experiencing postpartum depression. Maternal depression was identified as the strongest predictor of paternal depression during the postpartum period. The implications of parental depression for family health were discussed.
Conclusions. Postpartum depression in men is a significant problem. The strong correlation of paternal postpartum depression with maternal postpartum depression has important implications for family health and well-being. Consideration of postpartum depression in fathers as well as mothers, and consideration of co-occurrence of depression in couples, is an important next step in research and practice involving childbearing families.
Yes I read that abstract before as it was one of those referenced on saddaddy.com. It doesn’t change my stance – merely reinforces my concern for the aetiology of these medicalised life events.
I’ve not suggested life doesn’t change for new fathers or that adjustment is easy for all; as it might be for anyone with any significant life altering events. But how did it get to the point where coping with being a daddy required treatment?
Here [as usual] is my more expansive answer:
PPND is like “neurotic depression – sub type inadequacy” and “ADD – sub-type shit parenting”.
“PPND – sub type – Wow, how can that one little thing make that much noise and why haven’t I slept in weeks and why doesn’t she want a shag and these fkn nappies are more expensive than I thought and oh my god you mean disposable nappies are going to destroy my babies future ecosystem?”
The symptoms will be the same as other causes of depression – the cause is the difference.
However, none of the above are medical in origin. They are symptomatic of a people who have become dependent on the advice of Dr Phil et al, or the State in order to survive making serious decisions in life like of Marmite or Vegemite?
To require professional or even State intervention for the most basic and fundamental aspects of Life – relationships; having a family; giving kids a healthy diet; “anti-social” behaviour is not indicative of us ‘becoming more aware’ of the existence and nature of these events – it is not an emergence that is without causality and that causality lies in the deconstruction of social values to be replaced with more individualised capitalistic autocratic ideals.
In short – men get depressed – they always have but what is missing now is the social structure and values that used to make it tolerable.
We are medicalising away the ineptness of our social value system and we are seeking to replace those human behaviours called ‘coping’ with ‘my psychotherapist’.
As a society, we are ailing and failing in dealing with the causes of this insipid gravitation towards being ‘mothered’. The remedy is not to obfuscate the causation of these social maladies by medicalising them onto the individual but to re-gather ourselves as a group and ask that simple question:
“What the fuck were we thinking?”
In large parts of Oz suicidal rates are high and staying that way – why? Because of a severe and enduring drought that is driving farmers to despair for their livelihood. Drought is no more a medical problem than fatherhood.
The consequences are indeed that people become depressed. But if I can make it rain I will cure a vast many. Similarly, if skilled to be parents or practically supported to adjust to this new bundle of “joy”, fathers will far less become stressed and depressed.
The great Dr Will has this to say on men and depression:
http://unexpectedblessing.word.....courtenay/
The focus of my work as a researcher and social scientist is masculinity. What I discovered is, men’s attitudes about manhood have a direct influence on men’s health and well-being. Take for example, the fact that many men were taught as boys to never cry – and that they were often punished when they did. So, it’s no surprise research shows that men are more likely than women to try to hide their depression – which only worsens the depression. Men are also taught to be tough, self-reliant and never ask for help. This then makes it difficult for men to get the support and professional help they need to recover from depression – and can lead to feelings of shame or embarrassment when they do.
It really pains me to see so many men suffering alone, and in silence. Especially since depression, anxiety and the other emotional problems that affect us are effectively treatable
And it really pains me to see the medicalisation of ‘masculinity’ as being an obstacle to leading a good life.
Yes – don’t be ‘tough’ and ‘self-reliant’ –
WHAT? WHY THE FUCK NOT? For Chrissakes.
If I can’t be “self-reliant” what am I going to do?
Sure my woman pairs my socks – but I put the shelves up.
WE are self reliant.
Bit like the anti-biotics reducing immunology – let’s teach the system/person it/he doesn’t have to ‘cope’ – we can cope for it with this necessary ‘non self reliant’ treatment.
Designer disorders, as I see it – and not limited to mental health, is about “health experts” targeting gainful opportunities to create and maximise treatment options that capitalise on the psychological weaknesses of the individual through the pressures of social hysteria which far exceeds the requirement necessary.
Psychology is no better than big pharma in this asp[ect when it creates [psychological] problems to which their panacea is treatment through their chosen clinical skills for all life’s ups and downs.
Again; Dr Will:
http://www.postpartummen.com/gethelp.htm
Once you’ve decided to get help, the first thing to keep in mind is that research shows mental health clinicians are less likely to correctly diagnose depression in men than in women. What that means is that, if it’s possible, it’s important to find a clinician who is skilled at working with men. Unfortunately, that’s not always easy.
Below are some suggestions of people or organizations to contact for a referral to a licensed mental health professional in your area. First ask them whether they can refer you to someone who specializes in treating men and depression.
The next thing, once you’ve actually met with someone, is to make sure you think this is someone you can work with – even if that person is a specialist in working with men. The most important thing is that you find a psychotherapist you’re comfortable working with – that will play a key role in your recovery.
If you’re interested in medication, you will also need to locate a physician or psychiatrist – who are the only ones authorized to provide a prescription. (A psychotherapist can usually refer you to a psychiatrist.)
This is not raising awareness – this is subliminally selling psychotherapy.
But how did it get to the point where coping with being a daddy required treatment?
My understanding is that it’s NOT coping with being a daddy that – it’s suggested – requires treatment.
Very good. But can we debate the argument – not the syntax?
But that IS the argument. You believe that these “designer disorders” are nothing more than the usual trials and tribulations of life dressed up as illness in order to peddle psychopharmacology/psychotherapy and to make up for the lack of a coherent community from which, in some prelapsarian past of indeterminate date, we would have been able to draw strength.
From the literature I’ve read, it would seem that there is more going on than just being a bit tired, a bit discombobulated and a bit fed up with the baby not sleeping at night.
So some blokes find that the stresses of parenthood pushes them over the edge into depression?
Makes sense: sleep deprivation and odd sleep patterns, plus stress, plus major change, can bring on both mania and depression in the bipolar.
What’s to say that a bloke who is already not all that healthy but not ill, can become ill because of the additional stress of a new baby?
Does it justify a special name though, why not call it ‘depression – brought out by sustained stress’? I guess there’s a lot of focus now on the mother, because of PND, so someone is trying to make a buck out of suggesting depression can be triggered in men by the stresses of parenthood. However, correlation is not causation, I don’t buy that it’s a ‘special’ type of depression.
There are many reasons why I and Mr DeeDee don’t have kids, a major one is that the particular stresses associated with childrearing would trigger depression after depression in me. Why not in a bloke?
@beakie – “You believe…”
No I don’t.
I agree that men may get depression post childbirth due to the life changing event it brings. Depression happens. I would never rule it out as an option in anyone’s life.
But I don’t believe it’s existence should be used as a spring board to sell psychotherapy as another panacea. This is treating the medical disorder and not the individual.
I would also suggest another ‘cure’ might be in dealing with bolstering practical parenting skills or having a once a week darts game with some mates or what about CBT? Focusing on talking about the downside through psychotherapy might be counter-therapeutic.
But fairplay to Dr Will who does – on further looking – link to other resources available such as
The Postpartum Husband: Practical Solutions for living with Postpartum Depression
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi.....08-5119205
If the research into PPND is so important as to be taken seriously – which I do – there is an increased risk of depression after a child is born and significantly more so where the mother has PND – where is the research to ordain psychotherapy is the answer to this?
Or do we just go on the generic ‘depression research that validates psychotherapy as a good short term depression remedy? In which case, as DeeDee suggests, is it to be considered a “generic depression” and not PPND all on it’s own?
What causes PPND? All we know so far (and this seems to go for PND- sub type The Mama) is there’s a baby involved. Is it functional distress? Biological change? Is it a Social Disability?
And what if it’s merely a Financial issue? They may be better suited with treatment for “Money Disorder”
http://www.mentalnurse.org/ind.....eas-in-mh/
The website acknowledges men deal with things differently to women so there is no comparison to therapies for female PND sufferers. There is also no comparison to the cause – could it be the baby? Or perhaps the change in their woman – that depresses them?
Before suggesting men need to remove their evolutionary coping mechanisms in preference for something that isn’t yet known to be effective; shouldn’t they find out if their intervention is actually a better alternative?
How many men who suffer PPND actually get over it once they’ve adjusted all by themselves or by using conventional social supports? How many get worse and what is the suicide risk?
Does psychotherapy reduce that risk? Does it do anything?
Is positive psychotherpay prefereable to contemporary psychotherapy?
In order to modulate the best treatment, surely we should understand the causality?
A search of “PND causes” brings us this:
Your body continually makes mucous throughout the day. It is specifically made by the glands and cells lining the sinus passages. Its function is to trap tiny particles such as dust etc and stop them filtering into our breathing system. That is why it is sticky and thick. Although mucous normally is swallowed, occasionally it causes a sensation of dripping from the back of the nose. This sensation is called Post nasal drip (PND).
http://www.breezecare.com.au/a.....ldrip.html
Hmm… ok, not that.
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopic.....;id=2011#2
What are the causes of post natal depression?
Like many things, it is difficult to know in advance who will experience post natal depression. However, there are some factors that have been found to affect the likelihood of a woman developing PND. (But someone who has some of the following will not necessarily have PND).
Biological/physical reasons
* Depression in the family.
* Having previously had depression herself.
* Lack of sleep.
* Low levels of thyroid hormone.
* Anaemia.
* Having been physically unwell during the pregnancy, maybe with high blood pressure.
Psychological/emotional reasons
* Already existing low self esteem (not feeling good about herself).
* Troubled memories of her own family and how she was parented.
* Being a perfectionist who wants (and expects herself) to do everything perfectly, and then blames herself when she can’t.
* Feeling a need to always be in control, which is not possible all of the time with a baby.
* Past grief and loss from a death of a child or loss of pregnancy (miscarriage).
* Having a caesarean section delivery when a natural childbirth was wanted.
* Experiencing a difficult labour and delivery.
Social reasons
* Changed social circumstances, like being a long way from family and friendsPost-natal depression, making her feel alone and isolated.
* Relationship problems with her partner. This major change could make it difficult to understand each other, particularly at this important time.
* Problems with her parents (new grandparents).
* Major social changes for the woman, including her identity, activities, friends, interests, home, employment circumstances, independence and financial status.
* The pregnancy having been unwanted.
Does psychotherapy resolve all these potential causes?
Can you Scopus anything as my layman’s searches on “PPND treatment” are not returning anything that doesn’t have Dr Will’s name on it?
The most important thing is that you find a psychotherapist you’re comfortable working with – that will play a key role in your recovery.
This promotes an exclusivity of psychotherapy as the cure – as the key role.
This is designing a disorder to be compatible to a particular treatment without evidence and to the exclusion of alternatives.
I dispute this claim and this claim alone.
I don’t know exactly how you are searching for material, Mr Ian, but I’m guessing Google is heavily involved and not even Google Scholar at that. I think it’s not terribly convincing to build a whole case based on these results. Google ranks sites according to the number of hits they get, which means that results can be skewed – almost every number one result will be a Wikipedia entry these days, for instance, with all the attendant problems that can bring.
This is not a terribly solid base for your argument, which seems to be that Dr Will has pretty much invented PPND in order to sell psychotherapy and the evidence for this is that Dr Will is all over the place when you search for PPND on Google (I’m guessing).
Incidentally, I would be wary of talking about men’s “evolutionary coping mechanisms”. I would have thought they’re more societal than evolutionary. The fact that men outnumber women in the suicide stakes suggest that there isn’t much evolutionary advantage in keeping emotions buttoned up, or pouring drink on top of them, or sublimating them into some other activity in the way lots of men in Western societies do.
Oh and finally finally (why can’t I edit my own posts in this Google Chrome browser??) here’s a Google Scholar search for you.
http://scholar.google.co.uk/sc.....tnG=Search
My argument is not that at all and again you are attempting to redirect away from my argument.
That men outnumber women in suicide has nothing to do with the discussion – other than to support my suggestion – you can’t treat male PPND the same as female PND because the two are different.
I don’t have the evidence to suggest PPND is anything other than people claim it to be – which seems to be a totally explicable abreaction to new fatherhood. Why it requires a whole specialist recognition is beyond me and I’d think it was common sense to expect some less favourable outcomes with any serious life event.
I’m not sure localising it to a presumed or identified source (ie post natal) is of huge benefit as it identifies the ‘baby’ as being causation of daddy’s depression which is a tad unfair on the child.
Personally I think it’s more psychobabble jargonising on generic depression, but so be it. The profession has to keep itself elite.
But back to the point – with all that research evidence to back up the existence and validity of PPND, why is psychotherapy being hailed by Dr Will as the “key role” in treatment for this specific kind of depression with absolutely no evidence on this specific sub-type of depression or treatment outcomes? Or is the science only required to grab the attention and belief?
That’s all I want to know.
I am most certainly not saying Dr Will has invented or created an illness. I’m saying he’s milking it.
So when you said “This is designing a disorder to be compatible to a particular treatment without evidence and to the exclusion of alternatives.”, you meant something entirely different?
You also said “These designer disorders are just starting to really annoy me tho – because they are nothing but a marketing ploy”, which suggests they don’t really exist. As does your statement “That’s what makes them “designer” disorders – designed to generate treatment income”. I think anyone could be forgiven for thinking you did actually start out from a point that PPND was invented.
I also stated in the original post:
To be fair – I don’t think Will “designed” the disorder and there certainly is no doubt significant life change occurs when a baby arrives that may cause any number of reactions.
I fail to see how this clear statement becomes me saying Will invented it and that PPND is made up illness.
I fail to see how you make different arguments out of my consistent statements. You really are failing to address the issue.
Designing a disorder to be compatible to a treatment – ie by claiming psychotherapy is the key-role answer to PPND
OR
Designed to generate treatment income – ie by claiming psychotherapy is the key-role answer to PPND
The Nurofen anecdote was no tangentiality – it identifies selling treatment to people under false disguise. There is no “Nurofen period pain” analgesia or separate”Nurofen migraine” analgesia – It’s all just Ibuprofen 200mg. Why sell it as something so different? For marketing reasons of course. Just as Will has done for PPND.
Psychotherapy is not exclusive in it’s efficacy of PPND or any other depression.
Discuss.
If only your statements WERE consistent. I have addressed the issue, which is that I disagree with you. As seems to be your style, this then is presented by you as a problem on my part.
Not at all. I can accept your right to be wrong.
If your issue is “that I disagree with you” – then I would suggest that this is indeed your issue as it is not me but the argument I present that you should disagree with.
What’s syntax for the goose is syntax for the gander.
When someone places an opinion for public view – if someone else disagrees with it – then I’d consider it something of a prerogative to defend or simply debate that opinion.
If someone chooses to publicly disagree then I’d have thought it a responsibility to follow through to substantiate that or not.
I don’t think it’s acceptable to pop over the parapet and simply declare “I disagree with you” then fail to substantiate why.
As it stands; I believe he’s milking a life event/disease/disorder for his own end by promoting psychotherpay as the answer.
Since you disagree with “me”; why have you not addressed why you think it’s ok to promote psychotherapy as the “key role” in PPND?
I’m happy for you to disagree with the argument. I’d just like to know why.
I indicated what I disagreed with, but the argument suddenly changed after that.
I don’t really see what’s all that wrong with Dr Will’s claims, especially when – once you widen your search to more than Google hits – he is not a lone voice in a wilderness he’s staked out as his very own.
The argument did not so much change as I more had to work out what I was disagreeable with. I had a gut feeling that something wasn’t right for me here and much less an understanding of what it was but thanks for helping me get there.
His claims aren’t refutable – but neither are they proven. They make a logical sense to some degree that psychotherapy can help some people who are depressed. But it isn’t a panacea or a given that psychotherapy is the key role.
I like that the issue is raised – but I don’t like how one treatment pathway is marketed.
So I flipped a coin and you won.
But you had me at “Hmm…”
Nothing is a panacea, Mr Ian, and me, I’d rather be popping pills than sitting with Dr Will examining the contents of my navel. Whatever gets you through the day, I guess.
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