From the Beeb comes news that the entire British National Party (BNP) membership list ended up being posted online. For those of you who don’t know, the BNP is a far-right whites-only party that campaigns mainly on an anti-immigrant, “send ‘em all ‘ome” ticket. Despite attempts to gussy up its image in recent years and present itself as respectable, it remains the bastard son of the National Front and the British Movement, two viciously neo-Nazi organisations responsible for some dreadful acts of violence and intimidation against people from minority ethnic groups in the 70s and 80s.
Why is this on Mental Nurse, I hear you cry. I refer my honourable friends to this snippette: -
Occupations ascribed to the listed names include teachers, a doctor, nurse, vicar and members of the armed forces.
While there is no ban on many of those professions joining the BNP, its right-wing political stance and whites-only membership policy are seen by many as incompatible with frontline public service.
Which is where the question/point comes in. Should nurses, like the police, be formally banned from joining the BNP? I would argue that membership of a racist organisation automatically impairs your ability to meet your NMC Code of Conduct obligations not to “discriminate in any way against those in your care”. Others might argue that it is perfectly possible to separate your political beliefs from your professional behaviour and to carry out your duties as expected when you’re at work, while continuing to post dog shit through Asian families’ letterboxes on your days off.
Some might also argue that, were we to ban nurses from joining the BNP, we would have to have similar strictures in place for those who were part of extreme leftist organisations who indulge in that particularly repellent brand of leftist antisemitism that disguises itself as “anti-Zionism”. And perhaps they’d be correct.
I spent a good few of my formative years campaigning against the NF. Anti-fascism runs through my very being like “Blackpool” through a stick of rock. For me, people who join the BNP are knuckle-dragging throwbacks who preferably should be removed from the gene pool (I notice from the story that there is something hideous called a “family membership” of the BNP) as well as your local health centre. But I’m open to persuasion about the case against. Well, not that open. You open your mind too much, your brain falls out.
What are you doing Beakie ? All you want is a benign environment to peddle your idealistic claptrap. Your own blog didn`t provide you with a forum ( no one was interested ) so you came here. The “merciless hounder” was a lone right wing voice, invariably outnumbered, unafraid to stick one in your ribs. You never liked being slapped down by Col. Huffington “council oik” Puffington, the mere Diploma boy. You threatened to take your ball home. Didn`t work. You supported Z`s censorship ( the “ancient history” of last summer ). Didn`t work. Now it`s prostrate yourself before mine and Z`s academic brilliance or fuck off elsewhere. That would be sanctimonious horseshit if it was directed at me but you aim for the Charge Nurse. Perhaps the view isn`t too clear from the ivory tower but if you could see you would realise he`s the most thoughtful, moderate and intelligent commentator out there. You know that though, don`t you ? I won`t have been the only one to notice your reluctance, or should I say inability, to address his points.
What are you doing Beakie ?
Expressing my opinion, just like you.
All you want is a benign environment to peddle your idealistic claptrap.
No, I actually enjoy showing you up.
The “merciless hounder” was a lone right wing voice, invariably outnumbered, unafraid to stick one in your ribs.
Oh the courage, the bravery. I swoon, I swoon.
You never liked being slapped down by Col. Huffington “council oik” Puffington, the mere Diploma boy.
If only you had ever “slapped me down”. Instead, you thought you had “slapped me down” when I decided no longer to respond to your tedious trolling. There’s a difference, you see.
You threatened to take your ball home. Didn`t work.
Didn’t work to do what?
You supported Z`s censorship ( the “ancient history” of last summer ).
Yep, and still do.
Didn`t work.
Didn’t work to do what?
Now it`s prostrate yourself before mine and Z`s academic brilliance or fuck off elsewhere…
Oh dear. How embarrassing for you. You seem to think disagreement with you or A&E charge nurse is some sort of egregious insult against – well who knows or indeed cares any more? If you don’t like disagreement, get one of those nodding dogs you put in the back of cars. I’m sure you’d be much happier.
Which point of charge nurse’s have I not addressed. Please cut and paste.
Sorry I am a bit late to the party here. I noticed a certain demonisation of people here.
The BNP membership list has 12000 people on it, including family memberships which presumably includes children. Should their details be made public ? No. Should everyone on that list be banned from … anything ? No, probably not simply based on their political / personal views.
If I had to sign up to a political party it would probably be Labour. Which considering some of the things they have done would make me extremely sad. But generally their principles (if they have any left after this long in power) coincide with mine more than any other party. Does that means I agree with every decision they have made? No. Not even a little.
Same for the BNP. Many of the people marked as member may well only be their because their partner signed them up for family membership. A number of people may well have signed up because they agree with some policies but not others. Is it just to consider every individual on that list as scum for beliefs they do not have?
I worked with a racist nurse for several months some years ago. This man whom I will call Tossbag regularly behind closed made heavily racist remarks to other staff. Before the right wing jump in he was not making comments about unfair immigration policies he was describing most ethnic minorities as sub human. Did this make him a bad nurse? Not entirely. In practice I never saw him make an untoward comments towards a client, family member etc etc based on ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or anything else. Nor did he make comments about current specific clients behind close doors. What made him a terrible nurse was his general uselessness and lack of competence.
I’ve said it before, but will repeat it anyway. The best thing we can do with repulsive groups like the BNP is let them speak publicly and loudly so we can teach our children to identify their idiotic arguments and how to counter them and hopefully these groups will wither away and die.
I’m sorry D&C, but you’d have to be one confused puppy if you signed up to join the BNP because you liked their policies on litter collection but disagreed with the racism.
Probably. But there are confused puppies out there. Disagreeing with immigration strongly is not the same as saying ‘send them back home’ which again is not the same as saying ‘put em up against a wall and shoot them’. People can easily delude themselves that they are not being racist if they think what the BNP wants is just.
Dribbling idiots they might be, but possibly not evil scum.
Since when did it fall within the gift of deskbound “academic” fatboys to question the courage of former soldiers still working on the acute wards ?. Remind us again why you left the wards ? Couldn`t cope or were you looking to harvest some modern day, mickey mouse qualifications that a Chinese or Indian graduate would, rightfully, mock
What was bit Beakie ?. Merciless hounding or tedious trolling unworthy of a reply ?. You were slapped down and you know it. You`re not content with dismissing the events of last season as “ancient history”, you`ve progressed to full deny everything mode. You`ve become Tony BLIAR. There`s no greater condemnation than that.
I must say, this is all getting rather tedious now. resorting to name calling rather than putting up fair arguments.
Since when did it fall within the gift of deskbound “academic” fatboys to question the courage of former soldiers still working on the acute wards ?.
Who did that? Nobody.
Remind us again why you left the wards ?
To go into education.
Couldn`t cope or were you looking to harvest some modern day, mickey mouse qualifications that a Chinese or Indian graduate would, rightfully, mock
Do you mean all those Chinese and Indian students who come here to do their degrees, bringing 1.6 billion into the country?
further ad hom and nonsense snipped.
Please come back when you’ve grown up.
D&C, yes, it is perfectly possible to hold strong views on immigration control without joining racist parties. Same as you don’t have to be a gibbering member of the SWP to agree with their commitment to gender equality. However, if you do join a racist party (or indeed one that veers dangerously close to anti-semitism like the SWP), you can expect to be called on it.
You`re right in many ways, Kitty but this is bloody important. I`ve never been to Boston, Lincolnshire. As far as I know it`s an archetypal English market town populated by decent English folk. I understand there has been a massive influx of eastern europeans. This will have had an effect on the town dynamic in a myriad of ways. This unsettles people. Boston is the latest part of the UK to have a member of the BNP as an elected political representative.
The lefties, quite rightly, don`t like this and are looking for someone to blame. They can`t, or won`t, accept that the problem is entirely of their own making. For far too long anyone who has questioned our open door immigration policy has been casually branded a racist. People, and it`s not just me, are not amused. Unfortunately, some will express their frustration by voting BNP. It`s as plain as the hand in front of your face.
Unless, of course, you`re an ivory tower, I know best, don`t get out much, academic.
I’m with Kitty on this one. The hummus is flying and it’s getting a bit tedious.
OSB, Beakie, kindly get your dicks out so we can decide who’s won.
I have to agree with D&C on this one. Sadly, some people are taken in by the claptrap, lies and filth spouted by the BNP. I too have worked with nurses who have spouted racist nonsense. Rather than ignore them I and others challenged them. However, I would feel extremely uncomfortable working with a nurse who is a member of the BNP. Anyone who claims to be ignorant of their racist policies is either a liar or incredibly stupid.
Banning the BNP would only drive them into forming new groups or, more worryingly, force them into actively participating in other parties such as UKIP, the Conservatives, etc… At least when they belong to one identifiable party you can see them for what they truly are: racists.
As for banning nurses from joining? Surely joining the BNP would mean any nurses contravening the NMC code of conduct?
I WIN!
Which bit of the code, elcatto ?
The code tells us we must not discriminate in any way against those in our care, but discrimination, sometimes very subtle discrimination, is commonplace in the NHS.
I suspect most discrimination is experienced by the elderly ?
Then we have a subset of nurses who are homophobic [some informed by religious ideology, perhaps].
Then we have plain old racism, or least the tendency to lazy or unpleasant stereotypes.
I have heard comments in A&E about drunken Poles being “the new Irish”, for example.
The BNP does not have a monopoly on discrimination – if we are going to lynch every offender we’d better find a long piece of rope.
There’s this bit of the code:
You must uphold the reputation of your profession at all times.
One could say that joining the BNP is bringing the nursing profession into disrepute. Feel free to argue among yourselves about whether it does or not.
@beakie – Ahhhh. But don’t forget the people on the list (family membership) who very possibly have nothing in common with the BNP.
What about those using recreational drugs, conducting extra-marital affairs or cruising the internet for porn – perhaps we could devise a hierarchy of offenses ?
Like I said, feel free to argue about whether it does or not. I’m necessarily suggesting it does, just throwing it out there for people to debate.
There’s porn? On the Internet!
No way.
What about those using recreational drugs, conducting extra-marital affairs or cruising the internet for porn
Hmm – do these in the workplace (with the possible exception of the extra-marital affair, in which case it would depend who the affair was with) and see how long you keep your job.
Similarly, take a gander at the NMC’s Fitness to Practice hearings and see how far expressing racist views has got some people – yep, all the way to the jobseekers allowance claim queue.
@zarathustra –
this thread will be closing in 5,……………..4,……………….3,……………
@E.
I’ll decide when/if the thread closes, thanks very much. Now get back in the naughty corner. :p
Precisely, Beakie – providing nurses generally keep their views/habits/beliefs, etc out of the workplace [or at least the more extreme elements], then political affiliation, be it the BNP, or murderous NuLab should not be an issue.
In other words I do not think we can automatically assume that professionalism will AUTOMATICALLY be undermined (in every case) by a persons position on the political spectrum.
It might of course, but as you know we usually abide by a rather important principle: innocent, until proven guilty – as far as I know membership of the BNP is not (yet) illegal, although I’m sure there are those who think it should be.
I despair, really. The fate of Mrs. Biggins the West Country District Nurse allegedly in the BNP may be of some interest. The response of the NMC, her Trust and her colleagues may be of interest. Whether she`s defiant or slips away to make cream teas may be of interest. Taking a PC, leftie stance in the staff room will gain you some brownie points. But it`s all a sideshow.
The BNP gained 8.7 % of the vote in the last local elections. Not a bad platform. If history tells us anything it is that economic downturns are a Godsend for extremist parties. The BNP are on the march. Smartarse Brutish Nazi smears won`t stop them. Agonising over Mrs. Biggins won`t stop them. Comments on MN won`t stop them. The only thing that will stop them in their stride will be NuLabour admitting that their immigration policy ( or should that be a lack of an immigration ) policy has been a disaster. The British people crave some reassurance that the government has some control over our borders and has some inkling as to who is in the country. The ball is, very firmly, in the court of the left.
Nick Griffin’s wife is a nurse, isn’t she?
I think what is most irritating about your argument here, OSB, among many many things, is your imputation that people express the opinion that they are revolted by the BNP purely as a “stance” to “gain brownie points”. You seem to find it unbelievable that people could genuinely be revolted by the BNP.
There will always be a right wing. They are usually pretty irrelevant but that`s no longer the case. If they continue to prosper and there`s a hung parliament they could, conceivably, wield great power. You can fret all you like about imputations and degrees of revulsion but when will you acknowledge the forces which are giving the BNP their impetus.
I haven`t really followed this story in the media. Data loss and the BNP having a greater membership than I imagined are no great shock. However, I`ve looked at today`s newspaper and a 74 year old grandmother, who seems to have lived a virtuous life, justified her membership thus :
“the country`s full – the infrastructure, roads, flood plains, schools, nothing can cope with the massively unregulated numbers of incomers. I believe, at the very least, the BNP can influence other parties to properly regulate immigration”
To my mind she`s no natural fascist. She`s just a hugely frustrated old lady. Sorry, but it`s generating no revulsion in me. I really can`t see how you have no appreciation of what`s happening in this country. We`re all reaping what the left have sown. Likewise, you`re in the education system but have no concept of how dire it is.
Back in the primeval era, before ancient history – about a year ago to non – academics , I told you how to deal with a fast delivery from me. A dead bat works wonders. Mr Ian figured this out very quickly. You`re slow on the uptake but you seem to have figured it out at long last You can incorporate into your evidence base what`s blatantly obvious to those capable of independent thought. It`s a much more impressive approach than taking your toys home or getting your pal to close the thread.
I`m off again now, I have a much more momentous event to deal with.
I hope you stay on charge nurse. This site is desperately lacking a voice of sanity.
@accident and emergency charge nurse –
“In other words I do not think we can automatically assume that professionalism will AUTOMATICALLY be undermined (in every case) by a persons position on the political spectrum.”
Thanks A&E for putting my point much more clearly than I did
OSB’s old lady might be no natural fascist but she is wrong.
Hmmm that sentence does not look right …
Hey OSB, I will look out for you – glad to see you that you are still on top of your game.
Just a flying visit for me as well, today – what a pity Mr Ian couldn’t join us.
Thanks D&C – keep the posts coming.
a 74 year old grandmother, who seems to have lived a virtuous life, justified her membership thus :
“I’m no racist, I just hate black people. Which is why, despite my ill-informed views being more than adequately represented by the non-racist UKIP, I joined the BNP”
Beakie, at times you seem wholly in tune with politics of envy. However, as a psychiatric nurse, you find the politics of paranoia incomprehensible. Strange.
That might be what the woman thinks. But it is not what she is quoted as saying.
The BNP is a legitimate political party and, as OSB said, is as linked to unlawful behaviour in no lesser or greater way than any other party. Unlawful war is far worse than dog turds in the mail. But neither are right. (Unless you mail ordered via “Dog turd sex fetish monthly”).
To engage in unlawful behaviour is to break the law and we have rules about not breaking the law. It’s called the law. They are rules. Except when you’re in power – then you have neither rules nor law to stand accountable to. Just make new ones. The US Patriot Act was a good one.
What I find most odd is that we are talking about discrimination based on political affiliation – yet we are not permitted to do this on religious, sexual preferences, age, race grounds – but political discrimination is ok? I think the EU HR courts would crucify the NMC or GMC for striking a member off for affiliation to a legitimate political party. If it doesn’t effect your professionalism/clinical practice then it’s no one’s business. But if you’re going to raise it in the staff room – be prepared to be challenged; either face to face or in the disciplinary hearing. If it interferes with clinical practice then be prepared to have your licence to practice challenged.
Ergo – a nurse can join whatever political party they want to. They may not engage in unlawful or unprofessional behaviour.
Until the BNP – or any other party – gets outlawed – nurses, rabbis, teachers etc can join whichever party they want.
BNP has probably been slow on the rise not simply because of the activities of any extreme fundamentalists (and we thought the Muslims invented that?) and lack of support for their argument – but because the support has only been given when it effected their own back yard. Now that back yard is getting full and more people feel disaffected.
Another case of letting things go until the last secod -then saying – “wow, we didn’t think this one out did we?”
I’m not racist – well – I do despise whinging European’s a little – I just believe the UK is a small island which is getting very full and I don’t see why, just because a religion has a rule that compromises a law of a country that you choose to live in, that your religion rules of the country’s laws (viz Sikh’s and motorbike crash helmets) – the same goes for the social ethic and principles of that country.
I don’t care what colour, race or religion lives there (UK) or anywhere – just as long as it’s practical and everyone plays fair according to those people. Yes, I’m aware that it may appear a hypocrisy when I live in a country that was stolen from the Aborigines but I’m giving back what I can without telling old whitey.
Sorry I missed the fun. Was driving for 3 days.
OSB: I understand the Fallen to the best of my lay person ability. I never meant any dis-service to those that do and have fallen. But I will look out for the programme if it gets to Oz. Good to see you and A&E CN.
“Was driving for 3 days.”
Supermarket runs must be a real chore in the outback…
And back to the actual issue at hand . . . the NMC has released their response at http://www.nmc-uk.org.uk/aArti.....cleID=3429 :
Political affiliations
“Following the recent publication of the membership of the British National Party (BNP), the NMC would like to remind nurses and midwives that while you are free to join the BNP which is a lawful political party, as part of your Code of Conduct you must demonstrate a personal and professional commitment to equality and diversity.
The NMC does not forbid anyone on the register from being a member of any lawful political party or organisation. However, your fitness to practise could be called into question if you allow your political views or personal beliefs to contribute to behaviour that was contrary to your Code.”
I think it could be very difficult in some cases to prove that a persons age/sex/race-ist beliefs were influencing their practice. Feel like I’m going round in circles with this one
[...] subject of the BNP seems to have provoked some furious arguments on this blog, and in the light of such strong feelings, it’s time to take decisive [...]