From 2013 nursing will, for better or worse, become an all degree profession. Seems to be fairly well covered by the media.
Nursing to become graduate entry
All new nurses in the UK from 2013 will have to spend at least three years being trained to degree level, the government has announced.
This has been well discussed here before. The next stage of the plan will probably be to create generic nurse training.
The story is also covered at the Times and at the Torygraph. Funnily enough the RCN has an article about transport for student nurses as their top story.
So why are we moving over to an all degree nursing course?
Health Minister for England Ann Keen said: “Nurses are the largest single profession within the health service, and are critical to the delivery of high quality healthcare.
“By bringing in degree-level registration we can ensure new nurses have the best possible start to meet the challenges of tomorrow.
“Degree-level education will provide new nurses with the decision-making skills they need to make high-level judgements in the transformed NHS.”
Are there any potential problems?
Critics claim that the changes, to be outlined by Ann Keen, the Health Minister, will create an elitist profession and scare off recruits with the prospect of a long and expensive period of study. There are also concerns that some nurses would be “too clever to care” and refuse to carry out duties such as washing and feeding patients and helping them to the lavatory.
Luckily the degree level nurses will have the diploma level nurses on hand to carry out their bottom washing duties …
May if there is a skill gap between experienced nursing assistants and degree level nurses we could bring in a sort of inbetween nurse. We can only presume Matron will need an MSc.
Must go, off to work.
As I have done, Beakie, you have contributed tens of thousands of words to this site. I have a good feel for your views. Whether you admit it or not I have a much better feel for what is going wrong in this country. I am more than capable of marrying them together, accurately.
As you should know by now, you are disturbingly slow on the uptake sometimes, I have made your eyes water a few times as I have quite a memory for certain things. I know, very well, when you have scoffed at my ideas.
I`ve said it before. Do some youth work, walk through sink estates after dark, visit a secondary school, spend a day in the gallery of a Magistrates Court, go to a Job Centre, talk to someone who has considered voting BNP. Expose yourself to anything other than your desk and your computer monitor. It`s you who has nothing of interest or value to say. You get miffed when I inflict a bit of realism or practicality into your cosy, theoretical, liberal speculation.
What student debt ? Let them eat cake !
OSB – you have very little idea of my views because you rarely actually engage with what I’ve said, only with that which you think I’ve said. You see my name and go into automatic disagree+froth+rant mode. Either that, or you attribute to me views which others have expressed – I didn’t even contribute to the thread where you bored on about the benefits of introducing yomping to the school curriculum. So much for your crystal clear memory.
Do some youth work? Well whaddayaknow, my job brings me into contact with young people every day of the week. Walk through a sink estate? You mean, apart from the one my sister lives on? Talk to someone considering voting BNP? Will members of my family do?
You don’t know me, you stereotype me and then think that means you know me. One day perhaps you will engage with someone’s actual views instead of the views you want them to have because that makes it easier for you to go into your usual tedious spiel.
You`re taking the piss now as you know the MN archive is too vast, and possibly too boring, to trawl through. There`s a thread somewhere where you defended the education system. In another thread you poured scorn on my ideas. We have clashed on the education topic on a number of occasions. In brief, Prince Edward, fail to recognise any shortcomings in the Comprehensive debacle, jeer at those suggesting sensible, cheap stopgaps. As I mentioned, you`ve got previous. Posts raising serious concerns about the higher education machine then a volte face defence of the same. Like trying to nail down jelly, a very appropriate metaphor in your case. Do you drive to your sisters ?
And if it`s o.k to discuss voting BNP with your family, I`m desperate for the explanation as to why you were the bleater who moaned about the BNP link inducing Z to get rid of it. Hypocrisy of the first order. Or were you simply mulling over the fact that the former leader of the National Front is now living an openly gay lifestyle.
Tedious spiel ? It`s not just me and you Beakie, is it. Isn`t academia renowned for intolerance of practical inconveniences ?
You`re taking the piss now as you know the MN archive is too vast, and possibly too boring, to trawl through.
Which conveniently allows you to present your fantasies about what I have or haven’t said as absolute fact.
I’m too bored with you now to indicate the massive flaws in your predictable boilerplate whine above, but suffice it to say you’re talking rubbish as per usual, with the usual silly accusations of hypocrisy.
Do I drive to my sister’s? No, I don’t drive full stop. Now, haven’t you wasted too much of your precious time on this site today, shouldn’t you be out teaching all those directionless youngsters how to live on a turnip and extract water from dog plop or something?
That`ll be a taxi then.
Content with the piis poor, failing education system, contemptuous of suggestions to improve it AND dismissive of very valuable youth organisations ( did I tell you that one group I work with raised £5,500 for cancer charities last year ). I bet the kids are delighted you`re on their side.
The accusation of hypocrisy is entirely valid. Have you confiscated your sister`s computer to save her from the BNP website ? You blew up the BNP link affair, you supported the deletion of the link,( you loved it when I was banned ) and then, like the weak character you are, tried to distance yourself from Z`s actions. You should select your allies more carefully, he thinks it`s funny when I rag you.
Have I wasted too much of my time ? Probably yes. Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing of you. It`s either take your ball home, “Bye” or some type of dogged attempt to hang in there `til the thread peters out. Trying to persuade yourself you can thwart OSB. Shame no one has told you tenacity has to be consistently applied to be truly impressive. Weak AND pathetic.
For god’s sake, man, chill out.
Yet again, more made-up nonsense, more windmills for OSB Quixote to tilt at, more straw men to knock down. The only thing weak and pathetic round here is your intellect. I’m not contemptuous of suggestions to improve HE, I’m contemptuous of YOUR suggestions. I’m not dismissive of youth organizations, I’m dismissive of YOU and your boring self-praise. I didn’t “blow up the BNP link affair”, YOU did, by making a big old song and dance about it as if it were the free speech issue of the century, then stomping around like a four year old on a sugar rush. Does Z think you’re funny? His banning you suggests otherwise (and what a great three weeks on MN that was). Most people seem tolerant of you right up until the point you turn that infantile rage of yours on them for daring to disagree with your swivel-eyed ranting. You’re like a stage school child on Britain’s Got Talent who thinks its a comedian and whose act is kind of funny at first, annoying on second viewing and then utterly, teeth-grindingly obnoxious with each repetition.
I have no wish to thwart OSB. You do that all by yourself.
I think your instincts to take your ball home or ignore me were correct. You`re not cut out for this. You`re becoming unhinged.
You claim not to have contributed to the thread then you concede you were contemptuous of my suggestions.
You “didn`t blow up the BNP link affair” yet it was you, and you alone, who made an issue of a link no one else appeared to have noticed. Is it appropriate to relegate freedom of speech, one of our most precious and hard fought for rights, to a “song and dance” issue three days after Remembrance Day ?
You`re not dismissive of youth organisations less than three hours after suggesting they were about “extracting water from dog plop”.
I`m not claiming any great intellect. I`m not representing academia. For their sake I hope you`re doing that job poorly. If you`re a true representation we`re in greater trouble than I thought in this country.
Time you had a lie down in a darkened room.
Oh dear OSB, I think it’s you who ought to take that lie down as not only is your much-vaunted pin-sharp memory failing, but the ability to read and comprehend simple English seems to have deserted you as well. I am contemptuous of your suggestions to “fix” higher education (suggestions which seemed to amount to nothing more than reverting it to a privilege of the white middle classes); anything you might have had to say about bringing square-bashing and shouting to secondary schools went unremarked-upon by me. I was taking the piss out of you in your Bear Grylls/Brown Owl persona, not whatever youth organization you might be inflicting yourself upon these days. And yes, it’s highly ironic that so soon after Remembrance Sunday, you should be goose-stepping around like Himmler on a meth binge, attempting the patented OSB “bully them off the site” strategy while yarking on about how I should be shot for daring to object to a link to the modern day heirs to the Nazi party.
I suggest a leeching and purging might rid you of all that bile, sirrah. But until you can get to the quacks, perhaps you ought to loosen your stays a bit and calm down before you pop something vital in the cerebral department
Beakie, this gets poorer and poorer. I have made no suggestions for fixing HE. I have said that far too many newly qualified have far too much student debt. I have also said that nursing doesn`t remunerate them well enough to enable them to extract themselves from the mess they`re in. I then opined that the only LOGICAL course of action to address this would be to reduce time spent accumulating debt and increase the amount of time on a more reasonable income. In response you become Marie Antoinette. Do you know the difference between Marie Antoinette and Judy Garland ?
Of course, I do have suggestions for improving HE as it is. Reverse the dumbing down, too low pass rates, eliminate the multi choice etc. Unsurprisingly, you have little to say on this and we all know why. From your ivory tower you`re very free with your accusations of Mr Ian of being an “intellectual lightweight” and me of having a “weak intellect”. Not really sure what you expect of former brickies and squaddies. But let`s turn the spotlight on you. You don`t condemn the dumbing down as you`re a direct beneficiary. Qualifications were your passport off the wards into cushy practice development office and then onto lecturing. You`re just a bluffer though, a cursory glance at your waffle reveals you have no legitimate place in academia. Dumbing down et al got you off the wards didn`t it. No arse wiping any more ? Try nursing an unco-operative Huntingtons patient, showering them 4 times a day under a fixed head shower aiming the watering can at his buttocks. Meanwhile you can peruse the Guardian in the staff room.
Does the fact that we have the 1st Bn of the ( Z and Beakie`s ) Link Deletion Regiment on standby to repel the Fourth Reich really entitle you to be glib about Remembrance Day.
I do my best to avoid shows like Britain`s Got Talent but you can`t stay immune. Isn`t it the show where overweight, weird recluses get to sing on national TV. There`s a career path for you to consider
Oh dear OSB, your memory is failing you yet again. You have banged on about HE on a number of occasions, to wibble on about “fine minds” (which you seem to equate with white middle class ones), to yark on about “dumbing down” (in the absence of any evidence) and to express indirectly your bitterness and jealousy towards anyone who has got higher qualifications than yours (hence your dogged pursuit of Z, who irritates you because he has three degrees and clearly a greater fund of intellectual ability). Your latest rant here is yet again highly suggestive of a deep-seated insecurity and sense of inadequacy at your inability to progress your career. I pity you, really I do. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live in your strange little solipsistic world where everything is going to hell in a handcart because they didn’t ask OSB how to do it properly.
Anyway, as entertaining as it is to poke a whooping baboon with a sharp stick, it becomes cruel after a while to continue.
I meant to add – I’ll leave you the last word OSB, as it seems so terribly, terribly important for you to have it.
This comment thread will be getting closed off soon as things seem to be reaching a natural conclusion. Will give time for everyone to get their ‘final comments for real this time’ in. Official scoring when thread closed. If anyone has any factors they which to be taken into account with respect to the score please leave a comment.
As I said previously, Beakie, you are truly dim. Setting aside the contentious issue of ability I nursed through the years when Labour poured money into the NHS. Opportunities to “progress your career” abounded. I was offered a F Grade post 6 months post qualification. I think I`ve lost count of the subsequent opportunities I`ve had to climb the greasy pole. Even now the money`s gone I`ve ignored 2 stick on opportunities in the last year. I`m a Staff Nurse as I quite enjoy being a Staff Nurse. Granted, it would be a culture shock but as I`ve got the financial fundamentals right in my life ( which is partly the reason why I`m so concerned about the indebted newly qualified ) I could retire if I chose to – Mrs OSB might take some persuading. Time out to pursue any academic objectives would be no hardship at all. I don`t understand the credit system, I may have done enough Level 3 modules to qualify for a degree already. Finding out is not on my to do list. Which drives a coach and horse through your theories.
Bitterness and jealousy, I`m afraid, are your preserves. You are the MN equivalent of an incoherent, chippy John Prescott. Scratch the surface and the class envy spews forth. Prince Edward…posh accents…rugby club…white middle class. Monumentally sad when the likes of Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Alan Sugar prove conclusively that people from any background can achieve great things, and fantastic wealth, in this day and age. Which brings us back to where we started. The primary thing holding back the kids on this council estate is the piss poor education system. Even if it were only “extracting water from dog shit” I devote a considerable amount of my free time, including over two weeks of my annual leave this year, into trying to give them something. Do you, you fat computer bound waster ?
Thank you for granting me the last word.
Bye
Thank you Mental – please give the winning score to OSB, his fragile ego needs it more than mine.
No Beakie I shall be scrupulously fair and also show my working.
Final thought from me. As there`s “no evidence” of dumbing down in HE can we please ask Pretty Like Drugs from TWIM to monitor the majority in her cohort who are less than 30%ers to see how many ultimately get coached or plagiarise themselves into scraping a degree ?
Excellent idea, OSB, why don’t you ask her. I’m sure between working 37.5 hours on placement, attending university, writing assignments, revising for exams, passing practical assessments and having a life, she’d be more than happy to monitor her fellow students for you. However, to be absolutely certain of dumbing down and scraping through, she’d have to do more than just monitor their marks. She’d have to observe markers, the internal moderation system and the external examiners. Then, just to be on the safe side, she ought to try and dig out the proceedings of every exam board – these are confidential, so might involve a bit of hacking into the university computer, but I’m sure she’d be overjoyed to do so. While she’s there, she ought to make sure she also accesses every mitigating circumstances panel and student conduct board (to check for that rampant plagiarism), plus the appeals board and, in a spare moment or two, the Office of the Independent Adjudicator. Then, of course there are internal and external quality assurance measures she needs to acquaint herself with to really make sure everything is dumbed down – so that’s module evaluations, module monitoring reports, programme monitoring reports, course evaluations, course boards, student rep meetings, internal validations and mid-cycle reviews plus QAA validations and NMC validations too. Oh, and she ought to get herself along to faculty academic standards committees, head of department meetings, the senior management group meetings, the various pre-re departmental operational meetings and those of the boards of governors and probably the various meetings the dean and the vice chancellor attend.
The work of but a few minutes, I’m sure you’ll agree and all to help you shore up a rather dodgy point. Go and ask her OSB, off you toddle.
Mightily convenient that it`s virtually impossible to prove a point your self serving interst doesn`t want to be proven. Unfortunately, the truth is as plain as the hand in front of your face to those of us not in the Flat Earth Society.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I got a text at 23.19 last night. A colleague on nights aking if the cheese in the staff fridge was mine and if so could another colleague have it. I take a lot of garden produce and eggs in my for the troops and I`m partial to nice cheeses for lunch but I don`t leave stuff in the fridge on my weekend off. I`m sure QAA validation would indicate a hormonal imbalance needing cheese and that NMC validation would suggest it just happened to be their favourite cheese. The truth however will be that nurse is skint and will have persuaded themself they could do a night shift without sustenance. Blood sugars plummet ( as they do for those of us still committed enough to do shift work ) and people get hungry. Hope that nurse didn`t have a crisis to deal with at 04.00. SKINT a week before payday and 6 weeks before Christmas. They won`t be alone. No more pay rises so how is this problem to be tackled.
Hope you`ve got plenty of cake Marie, sorry, Beakie
Mightily convenient that it`s virtually impossible to prove a point (further self-serving babble snipped)
Not impossible, but clearly more work than your seriously limited intellect could imagine.
Ah, once again entrenchment is being snatched from the jaws of enlightenment in front of our very eyes………
The truth however will be that nurse is skint and will have persuaded themself they could do a night shift without sustenance
And in what way am I responsible for this? Take your protest to the RCN and Unison and the Pay Review Body and the Trust – I am not involved in setting nurse salaries.
Marie, Can I call you Marie ? I hope you`re not dressing the part as too many humpbacks would have to be harpooned to make the corset.
I`d be grateful if you didn`t move the goalposts. Even my seriously limited intellect can recognise that for a problem to have a solution variables have to move. I thought you`d accepted that, given government finances, pay is no longer a variable. The point of protesting to the RCN / Pay Review People would be ??
I`ve done some canvassing today with my recently qualified shift mate. To be fair to you she is not someone who I would expect to support your argument. In my defence I didn`t get off ward much. I asked how many of her cohort she thought were degree quality. She replied 5/6ths of them had ENDLESS tutorials, resubmissions and extensions and wouldn`t have passed a system with any rigour. A way higher fraction than I`d anticipated.
As it happens I`m off to Uni tomorrow to discuss my lecturing debut next month. I have two slots pencilled. Initially lecturing to an outside interest group and then students themselves. No doubt my obervations will support my MN asertions.
Jan, The only enlightment this thread needs is the reproduction of Z`s bank statement which would, in a hugely gratifying manner, thrust Beakie`s “what student debt” question straight down his throat
Ummmm.Thread getting closed at some point tonight. Get your last bits of hair pulling in now.
Why would I be amenable to putting my bank details up on the internet?
Clearly there has to be a joint winner to this thread, so I propose we award the prize to Lorna and Jan.
Wouldn`t expect you to Z but I know you get my point.
Oh, and give my love to your mum
I am sorry, but I have not a clue what is going on with the argument now. If someone can convince me that it was actually getting back onto an actual point I will open up the comment thread again. Otherwise take the girly fighting over here.
The argument will scored scored according to the official MC rules of 1972, including the controversial Stockholm variations of 76. The use of the Clark defence will be disallowed.
We start here with zero points to OSB. The lack of points due to OSB not actually directly attacking Beakie and making a point. Specifically scored as OSB did manage to bring bum wiping into the discussion. Remarkably managing to avoid asking Beakie when he last saw a naked bum and the hilarity that would have ensued as a result.
Current score OSB: 0 – Beakie Nil
Despite not being in this argument Z loses two points for actually being dragged into a bum wiping conversation. Shame on you Z. Shame!
Another zero point score for OSB here for a wonderfully pointless comment and invoking the fear of a ban.
Score remains as before which according to the Clark variations of 83 means that OSB has his score halved.
Beakie comes in at the bum end of the debate here scoring himself an immediate zero points for … his comment. OSB hits back with a two pointer worth of drivel here carrying on the poo discussion. Points also for making me think what Beakie might actually get up to in his office. Beakie here gains a point for explaining to OSB that sometimes it is not just about what words are there but also why they are. He would have got three points for not pointing it out.
After this lightning quick round the score stands at:
OSB: 2 – Beakie: 1
OSB only gets one point here for lack of ranting. Poor OSB, you actually made a point in your comment that was only lightly tinged by paranoia. Zero for Beakie for obvious reasons.
OSB: 3 – Beakie: 1
A quiet round there.
I skip ahead.
Two points to Beakie here for a short point and an offer to end the pain.
OSB: 3 – Beakie: 3
Then we move into rapid fire sniping, each side crouched over their keyboards like a adolescent porn fan. (no link)
Absolutely brilliant stuff here. The end of page one of the comments and a fair chunk of the next page. Two titans of boswellox clawing big chunks of man flesh out of one another.
I had an external independent source score the comments for me. Giving the score of:
OSB: 19 – Beakie:23
Then Beakie snatches defeat from the jaw of victory by making me onvoke Godwin’s Law with this comment here.
Beakie. I hope your head is hanging in shame. After invoking Godwin’s Law and checking the rule book the final score stands as follows.
OSB: 19 – Beakie: 11
I declare this argument over.
May I thank all parties involved for the impressive use of straw men, paranoia, phlegm flecked ranting and use of excrement.I have seen nothing like it since my gran last ran out of her Librium.